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	<title>Comments on: After Dark Horrorfest Reviews: The Final</title>
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	<link>http://mcgees.org/2010/02/05/adhr-the-final/</link>
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		<title>By: Joshua <i>(Site Owner)</i></title>
		<link>http://mcgees.org/2010/02/05/adhr-the-final/comment-page-1/#comment-63799</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua <i>(Site Owner)</i></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcgees.org/?p=1912#comment-63799</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I’m asking you to take on faith&lt;/i&gt;

Not necessary.  I find this a very respectful question.

&lt;i&gt;The super-hot girl that reminds most horror fans of the girl...&lt;/i&gt;

No, I&#039;m entirely with you on this.  But this is mostly an obsolete formula.  For instance, none of the entries from this year follow this convention, except to the precise degree I&#039;ve described in this one film, and the pain to which the boys are subjected is at least as vicious as the girls&#039;.  A good number of films in the four years of this festival subvert this, having strong, victorious female characters.  And for what it&#039;s worth, I don&#039;t watch (or continue to watch) films in which your description is valid.  The last one I watched of this type was 2001&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0242998/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Valentine&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; in which Denise Richards&#039;s character is locked, nude, under the lid of a hot tub and killed with a power auger plunged through the lid.  Not cool, and not my scene.

&lt;i&gt;don’t have the stomach for extended torture, which seems to be the direction that horror has been headed for quite a while&lt;/i&gt;

Nor do I, but I would disagree with your summation of the direction of the genre.  This film -- which you will note I judged worst -- is the only one to employ what could be considered extended physical torture at all, and exactly one other employed extended psychological torture.  And the physical torture of this film pales in comparison to that of &lt;i&gt;Reservoir Dogs&lt;/i&gt;, which we both adore.  As a side note, &quot;revenge-driven psychopaths&quot; is the one wrong note in your summation.  The torture in &lt;i&gt;Reservoir Dogs&lt;/i&gt; is pure psychopathy, while the torture in this film is framed as a reasonable response to trauma -- precisely why I abhor this film.

Torture is manifest in the &lt;i&gt;Hostel&lt;/i&gt; franchise (none of which I&#039;ve seen) and the later &lt;i&gt;Saw&lt;/i&gt; films (only the first two of which I&#039;ve seen, stopping the third for this precise reason), yes.  But &quot;extended torture&quot; is actually more manifest in 1970s horror and sexualized male-on-female violence in the 1980s than in the last twenty years, the &#039;90s by painfully self-aware near send-ups, and the occurrence in the noughties of careful auteur-level attention to the genre as valid filmmaking which, in my view, offsets the torture porn.  The offsetting, of course, is easier if one does not (as I do not) watch the torture porn in the first place.

&lt;i&gt;I’m a sucker for supernatural horror,&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, we diverge here.  Generally when a supernatural element is shown to be integral to the storyline, I become much less interested.  But I think you attribute to me enjoyment of sub-genres (I&#039;d argue that &quot;entire genres&quot; is frequently more exact) that is inaccurate, and I&#039;m happy to dispel that misunderstanding.

Good?  I need to write up the rest.  I&#039;m looking forward to more responses from you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I’m asking you to take on faith</i></p>
<p>Not necessary.&nbsp; I find this a very respectful question.</p>
<p><i>The super-hot girl that reminds most horror fans of the girl&#8230;</i></p>
<p>No, I&#8217;m entirely with you on this.&nbsp; But this is mostly an obsolete formula.&nbsp; For instance, none of the entries from this year follow this convention, except to the precise degree I&#8217;ve described in this one film, and the pain to which the boys are subjected is at least as vicious as the girls&#8217;.&nbsp; A good number of films in the four years of this festival subvert this, having strong, victorious female characters.&nbsp; And for what it&#8217;s worth, I don&#8217;t watch (or continue to watch) films in which your description is valid.&nbsp; The last one I watched of this type was 2001&#8242;s <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0242998/" rel="nofollow"><i>Valentine</i></a> in which Denise Richards&#8217;s character is locked, nude, under the lid of a hot tub and killed with a power auger plunged through the lid.&nbsp; Not cool, and not my scene.</p>
<p><i>don’t have the stomach for extended torture, which seems to be the direction that horror has been headed for quite a while</i></p>
<p>Nor do I, but I would disagree with your summation of the direction of the genre.&nbsp; This film &#8212; which you will note I judged worst &#8212; is the only one to employ what could be considered extended physical torture at all, and exactly one other employed extended psychological torture.&nbsp; And the physical torture of this film pales in comparison to that of <i>Reservoir Dogs</i>, which we both adore.&nbsp; As a side note, &#8220;revenge-driven psychopaths&#8221; is the one wrong note in your summation.&nbsp; The torture in <i>Reservoir Dogs</i> is pure psychopathy, while the torture in this film is framed as a reasonable response to trauma &#8212; precisely why I abhor this film.</p>
<p>Torture is manifest in the <i>Hostel</i> franchise (none of which I&#8217;ve seen) and the later <i>Saw</i> films (only the first two of which I&#8217;ve seen, stopping the third for this precise reason), yes.&nbsp; But &#8220;extended torture&#8221; is actually more manifest in 1970s horror and sexualized male-on-female violence in the 1980s than in the last twenty years, the &#8217;90s by painfully self-aware near send-ups, and the occurrence in the noughties of careful auteur-level attention to the genre as valid filmmaking which, in my view, offsets the torture porn.&nbsp; The offsetting, of course, is easier if one does not (as I do not) watch the torture porn in the first place.</p>
<p><i>I’m a sucker for supernatural horror,</i></p>
<p>Yes, we diverge here.&nbsp; Generally when a supernatural element is shown to be integral to the storyline, I become much less interested.&nbsp; But I think you attribute to me enjoyment of sub-genres (I&#8217;d argue that &#8220;entire genres&#8221; is frequently more exact) that is inaccurate, and I&#8217;m happy to dispel that misunderstanding.</p>
<p>Good?&nbsp; I need to write up the rest.&nbsp; I&#8217;m looking forward to more responses from you.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Mike</title>
		<link>http://mcgees.org/2010/02/05/adhr-the-final/comment-page-1/#comment-63797</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcgees.org/?p=1912#comment-63797</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m kind of hesitant to ask this question at all, since I can&#039;t think of a way to ask it that doesn&#039;t sound more combative than I mean for it to be. I&#039;m asking you to take on faith that I want your genuine analysis as a fan of the genre, and I&#039;m not trying to start shit.

Here&#039;s my condensed read of your thoughts on &lt;I&gt;The Final&lt;/I&gt; (you can correct my read if I&#039;m wrong):

&lt;I&gt;The cool kids in a high school are gorily killed by a group of revenge-driven psychopaths. Most horror fans were not the cool kids in high school, so the makers of the film expect them to be ok with this. This expectation is insulting and dangerous.&lt;/I&gt;

I&#039;m more or less with you, but I&#039;m interested in hearing your thoughts on how this compares to the other films in the genre, many of which would not be inaccurately described as follows:

&lt;I&gt;The super-hot girl that reminds most horror fans of the girl that they never worked up the nerve to ask on a date in high school gets gorily killed by one or more psychopaths, probably in a laughably/disturbingly sexualized fashion. Horror fans are expected to resent the way that that girl never noticed them in high school, so the makers of the film expect them to be ok with this.&lt;/I&gt;

If you disagree with that particular synopsis, I&#039;m interested in that, as well. I think that we both love horror, but in wildly divergent styles. I&#039;m a sucker for supernatural horror, and don&#039;t have the stomach for extended torture, which seems to be the direction that horror has been headed for quite a while. As you&#039;re someone way, way better versed in the field than I am, I&#039;d like to hear your thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m kind of hesitant to ask this question at all, since I can&#8217;t think of a way to ask it that doesn&#8217;t sound more combative than I mean for it to be. I&#8217;m asking you to take on faith that I want your genuine analysis as a fan of the genre, and I&#8217;m not trying to start shit.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my condensed read of your thoughts on <i>The Final</i> (you can correct my read if I&#8217;m wrong):</p>
<p><i>The cool kids in a high school are gorily killed by a group of revenge-driven psychopaths. Most horror fans were not the cool kids in high school, so the makers of the film expect them to be ok with this. This expectation is insulting and dangerous.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m more or less with you, but I&#8217;m interested in hearing your thoughts on how this compares to the other films in the genre, many of which would not be inaccurately described as follows:</p>
<p><i>The super-hot girl that reminds most horror fans of the girl that they never worked up the nerve to ask on a date in high school gets gorily killed by one or more psychopaths, probably in a laughably/disturbingly sexualized fashion. Horror fans are expected to resent the way that that girl never noticed them in high school, so the makers of the film expect them to be ok with this.</i></p>
<p>If you disagree with that particular synopsis, I&#8217;m interested in that, as well. I think that we both love horror, but in wildly divergent styles. I&#8217;m a sucker for supernatural horror, and don&#8217;t have the stomach for extended torture, which seems to be the direction that horror has been headed for quite a while. As you&#8217;re someone way, way better versed in the field than I am, I&#8217;d like to hear your thoughts.</p>
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